Talk:MuseWiki

Feel free to request additions to the main page

Gig Chronology

Not a major problem, but the gig feed isn't putting the gigs in chronological order. Not sure if it can be edited but it's a bit misleading and quite annoying :p Cheers. nuttyboy 19:41, 2 September 2009 (BST)

"We are now @muse rather than @musewire"

Should we be changing that as well? (On the main page, for example) 7 23:32, 16 August 2009 (BST)

O'RLY

"Welcome to the all new muse.mu! We've had a pretty major overhaul and there are lots of new features for you to explore including MuseWiki and Google Maps integration plus commentable news and pics for Muse Members." well, this is going to take some getting used to... --Wilfio 11:16, 13 July 2009 (BST)

Some of us got used to it a while ago :P Hopefully some of the changed made recently might make a bit for sense in light of the new semi-official status. There's still quite a few issues like discobox colours are messed up. I'm not sure if the css was going to cater for them or whether we need to change the templates or something. I'll be making a "Back to Muse.mu" template for gigs and discography pages in a bit. Niall 11:35, 13 July 2009 (BST)

sounds good, sounds good. You kept it a secret very well. If you need any help with CSS. I've been known to dabble. --Wilfio 11:39, 13 July 2009 (BST)

Yeah sorry it there's any bum pages with bad css, it's quite hard moving from white to black! Definitely going to make a white skin when i have time though, i miss reading black on white. But yeah, this will do for now... tempted to use the background from the current site, it's pretty piss to steal haha --crazybobbles 12:01, 13 July 2009 (BST)

Gigs Feed

The upcoming gigs feed seems to be broken, I looked at the code and it looked alright. Is it a problem on the muse.mu side? --Wilfio 23:56, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Hello, your call is important to us

*ca-ching*

We seem to be experiencing some technical difficulties at the moment and we are attempting to rectify the problem. In the mean time, we are sorry for any inconvenience.

Thank you for your time.

(:P) --Tene 00:00, 4 June 2009 (BST)

Feed fail. Not our fault, sorry :( --Tene 00:20, 4 June 2009 (BST)

Yeah...the feed has all the gigs set to be on June 1st, just have to wait until it gets fixed on the .mu end of things ۞ 00:29, 4 June 2009 (BST)

Upcoming Gigs

While muse are busy recording, d'you think it would be a good idea to put something like 'Muse are busy recording their fifth album, no time for gigs! under the 'upcoming gigs' section of the front page? looks a bit silly bare like that. --Wilfio 15:26, 11 February 2009 (GMT)

Good idea, added a small note :) ۞ 01:14, 13 February 2009 (GMT)

BT Digital Music Awards

It's a bit late but should be include button on the main page for voting? ۞ 19:17, 10 September 2008 (BST)

Does the award not depend on the site being registered before voting begins? --Tene 18:04, 11 September 2008 (BST)

Nope it appears you can still nominate any site. Most Muse fans will have most likely voted for MuseLive by now though, I guess. --03:31, 14 September 2008 (BST)

Musewiki general improvement

I had a idea for a way to improve the content of Musewiki overall - that is appealing to members of the forums to contribute material to musewiki. Too many people view it as a static website as opposed to something to be involved in (or at least a view that seemed to be common) - what we could do is appeal to people forums to contribute anything they can to improve the content of articles, for example, scans of set lists where they are absent, typing up articles from magazines, scanning in CDs etc that aren't in the discography, tabs, and generally promoting the site to get more people to contribute and realise this place actually exists (particularly the huge number of new fans who weren't around when this site was launched).

Wanted to run it by here first and see what others think, and then post a few threads on the official forums and muselive. ۞ 01:28, 3 September 2008 (BST)

Sounds good to me, it's hard to get across on teaching poeple to wiki though. It's like a learning curve for everyone! I get loads of emails of people saying "hey, this needs to be changed to that" and i constantly have to reply to telling them they should try doing it. i suppose it's the complexity of it all that scares me, but i'm definitely up for promoting stuff :D --crazybobbles 10:08, 3 September 2008 (BST)

Awesome, it would be great to get some new regulars to improve it all before the fifth album comes out and the next wave of new fans comes along. The coding will probably scare some people off but if I make a post I'll tell them to hassle me about it, I don't mind getting stupid questions, and getting across the point that Musewiki can and should be edited by anyone. We could have a sandbox like wikipedia. I'll also write a few easy to understand bits on things like using citations to add to the references article. ۞ 17:45, 3 September 2008 (BST)

You know, MuseWiki could be a lot better (and have a lot more contributors) if it were just more fun, you know? It doesn't have to be all uptight and referenced and stuff. Just loosen up. -- 7 00:54, 13 September 2008 (BST)

There's plenty of non-serious articles. Like the page about Matt. But for pages about albums, songs, gear and gigs, where people want good information on things, then references and such are very necessary. There's no point in having a lot of contributions if people might as well be making it up as they go along. It's not a matter of being uptight, just practical. --۞ 03:31, 14 September 2008 (BST)

Live single linkage suggestion

Is it an idea to put up a link to the corresponding gig on a page of a single which has a live version on it? Like this:
DE, BX maxi CD

1. New Born
2. Map of Your Head
3. Piano Thing
4. Plug in Baby (live)

--BenjiWL 14:03, 18 July 2007 (BST)

Sounds reasonable, it's a wiki, so just change it :) / Time Q 15:09, 18 July 2007 (BST)

Request:
A place to veiw all the pictures in the Wiki.- Debase Masons Grog
 That already exists at Special:Imagelist BigBlueFish 16:01, 19 March 2006 (GMT)

Request and action: You asked for a different logo and a few of us put some up. Nothing has been changed on what the logo will be. I will change the logo to the one i made to see if you guy's think that it is better.

Action: FourthMember removed my Hidden Noise for Jimmy Kane. Which is mean. As a note, the noise is real.

-- I can't hear it (on my version at least) Jpatrick
-- You couldn't hear a distinctive "Poot" sound, and then a smashing sound at 1:17 on Jimmy Kane?
-- I hear something breaking Jpatrick
-- See? Un-deletage please.

Quotes

Request: Could someone add a link to the Quotes page to the front page? Jpatrick

I agree, or somewhere where it can be seen. --Susurr0 09:28, 24 November 2007 (GMT)

Request

I don't know how to use Wiki properly lol so: will somebody change "Eerie whispers" on the lyrics of TofDA to "Alien whispers"?

If the lyrics were that then someone would change it. But its not --crazybobbles 21:36, 9 January 2007 (GMT)

Would it be a good idea to link Guitar, bass, etc under the band member's names to the particular page on their instrument? --M3cky 09:44, 11 March 2007 (GMT +8)

Linked

Are you guys aware that Muse has a link to here on their website? Just wondering. Salty 21:22, 3 August 2006 (BST)

Aye, knew about it, Tom Kirk is particularly keen on the site, especially due to the reason that he can go to others "Look, im part of the band, look at my page" haha. --crazybobbles 12:42, 20 October 2006 (BST)

Innocent Voices

On rhapsody.com, it has a compilation album listed called Ethnic Whispers. It says one of the songs listed is called "Innocent Voices", and it says it is by Muse (other sources say so as well). It also has a description of Muse that matches with the Muse we know. I don't know if it's right or not, because the song doesn't sound very much like Muse and it's not on this site anywheres. Salty 00:26, 28 December 2006 (GMT)

It isn't, it just says it's our Muse because the names are exactly the same.-DMG

Main page

What about a proper main page? I mean, with featured articles, news, "did you know...?", and things like that? -Susurr0 11:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC+1)

Sounds cool. I'd be willing to help, but only if someone who's better at wiki-ing than me helps to because I'm not really as advanced as others.... 7 05:17, 17 December 2007 (GMT)

see: User:7 - Project: Main Page‎ for ideas Dom's name isnt under his picture on the home page. and im not aloud to edit the home page, so if someone else could check into that.

Videos

Would it be possible to add a link to Videography from the sidebar? Just think it might make life easier than having to do through Discography.--Jakalope 11:49, 21 March 2007 (GMT)

I agree. --Susurr0 16:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC+2)

What happened to this? It's hard to find it. --Susurr0 09:28, 24 November 2007 (GMT)

A few things

Since it's almost three weeks after April fools, do we need the note on the front page anymore?

And what's with all the 500.shtml errors? ۞ 17:57, 19 April 2007 (BST)

yeah i keep getting those errors too --Wilfio 18:16, 19 April 2007 (BST)

Another thing: how can we undo all those changes that make album covers link straight to the article? It's now impossible to view larger images of the cover art.۞ 08:57, 20 April 2007 (BST)

Just click on the "Redirected from" link. --Tene 17:02, 20 April 2007 (BST)

Nice touch with the random phrases under the title, just noticed it. ۞ 17:12, 14 May 2007 (BST)

Yeah its sort of my thing when i make fansites haha. Musecast and crazybobbles has it so i thought, why not install an extension just for it. I might look for other areas of the wiki to do the random stuff too. --crazybobbles 01:30, 15 May 2007 (BST)

Haha, yeah, they're hilarious, I love them. Good work. -Susurr0 23:34 21 May 2007 (UTC+2)

Frontpage image

I have no idea if it's just my PC or whatever but the image on the frontpage seems to collide with the seperator bar thingies :|

Any way of fixing this?

I've got a feeling I know the solution. --Tene 18:20, 7 June 2007 (BST)

Hah hah.

Not funny.

Surely it would be simpler to make the page work properly. I'm trying to help improve MuseWiki for everyone not just for myself

Just move [[Image:MuseBand2.jpg|Right|thumb|[[Muse]], the band]] below ==MuseWiki== in the code and the picture wont be impaled! I'd do it myself, but I don't have sysops rights.

7 22:15, 19 December 2007 (GMT)

Band Member Photos

Why not have some a bit more recent, maybe even of them playing? 7 07:07, 18 November 2007 (GMT)

Example:

• 

  Matthew Bellamy (Vocals, Guitar, Keyboard, Lyrics)

• 

  Christopher Wolstenholme (Bass, Backing Vocals)

• 

  Dominic Howard (Drums, Percussions, Human Bones)

The photos would probably need to match in some way, though.

Ah here's a project for you, round off as many muse photos as you can and turn them into small boxes, then bam! I will use the random script to generate random images each time so people dont get bored of the images :) --crazybobbles 20:41, 27 February 2008 (GMT)

Ha! And I thought I was going crazy! See: User:7/Sandbox 7 00:30, 13 April 2008 (BST)

Motto/Catchphrase

What about a motto for the site?! Sugggestions? 7 07:09, 18 November 2007 (GMT)

Now for a marketeer type person I would say our motto would include the words "Muse, muse band, muse fansite, muse wiki, haarp tour, royal albert hall" and a few other search terms that would aid the site from getting more viewers ;) My trait for fansites is I always have loads of subtitles randomly generated on the homepage, this is a homage to futurama's subtitle at the beginning of each episode (which is why I wrote "In color" but noone got the reference :() Feel free to use my talk page if you have more questions that probably can be answered by myself since I'll most likely forget that this page was edited, should stalk them relly haha --crazybobbles 20:41, 27 February 2008 (GMT)

NavFrames

Any chance we could have the code for NavFrames installed to allow for expandable tables? Would be great for tidying away excessive technical information in some articles (see discography talk page!). ۞ 18:31, 14 December 2007 (GMT)

We need someone with an access to MediaWiki pages. --Muserwiki 04:07, 15 December 2007 (GMT)

Which would be Crazybobbles when he's next able to - but collapsible tables seem to be preferable so maybe they're a better choice to use once the code is copied over. ۞ 20:28, 15 December 2007 (GMT)

Aren't admins capable of editting them as well, maybe admins have less power on this wiki... --Muserwiki 17:15, 16 December 2007 (GMT)

Colours

I think the colours on this page should be more similar to our colours (read: dissimilar to Wikipedia). I was thinking of taking the colours from our logo and varying the blue and yellow from that, keeping the ratios of each of the three hex (#ff ff ff) parts the same. Though I'm no expert in colours and whatnot so I don't know whether that'd look good. I mean, the blue here doesn't look like our blue and I think maybe... a lighter yellow would be okay for the left column?

Also, does anyone know where all the styling is stored? I think we could curvelatiousify (ahem) the tabs, corners and whatnot.

Also, perhaps we could ratify our colour scheme generally. --Tene 01:59, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

Oh... sure. That's a good idea, I guess. I'll change the version on User:7/Main Page Project as an example. 7 06:11, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

Cryptography

It's been a few years since the cryptography thing, aren't there higher priority thing (like our new songs chronology) that could be linked on the main page instead? ۞ 23:01, 21 January 2008 (GMT)

Cheers! ۞ 00:08, 22 January 2008 (GMT)

MuseWiki logo

It's been gone for a few days now...or is it just me? ۞ 15:14, 5 February 2008 (GMT)

See here. --Tene 15:22, 5 February 2008 (GMT)

Why?

Can I ask why we still have the Muse in history section here when no one bothers to update it?
Why don't we have like on 7's idea of haveing a did you know section with many facts.
Any thoughts?

Gilly 13:50, 16 February 2008 (GMT)

I'd hazard a guess that no-one's come up with a list of trivia to put in that section, yet. --Tene 17:25, 16 February 2008 (GMT)

7 has got a few ideas on his main page but fair point Gilly 19:12, 16 February 2008 (GMT)

...Take a look. I reckon that's enough for the moment. I really hope someone adds the Did You Know section before we look any stupider with a month-old This Week in History on our main page. User: 01:26, 27 February 2008 (GMT)

As Long As We're Putting Bulletins on the Main Page....

...we should add something about The Campaign to inform potential helpers! User: 01:18, 27 February 2008 (GMT)

I'll add it on crazybobbles.org so it will appear on the bottom bit --crazybobbles 20:41, 27 February 2008 (GMT)

Muse News (Mews Nuse?)

Lame jokes aside, I think that the Muse News section should be changed from showdesc="true" to showdesc="false", which would take off that little paragraph beneath the title of the story to make the page seem less cluttered. What does everyone else think?7 06:20, 14 April 2008 (BST)

MuseWire on the Main Page?

Hmm? Would it visually overload the page? Would it fit? Would it replace something else? 7 23:38, 3 June 2008 (BST)

BHaR Tour Edition Intro/'350.54'

Shouldn't we have a page on this?

So people know what I'm talking about:

http://muselive.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=25377

There's also a link in that thread to the original file related to the whole cryptology thing from 2005, for an extended history/more info about the "song."

What d'you reckon?

Wolstenholme-ism

I, MuseIsAbsolution, hereby announce the founding of Wolstenholme-ism! I know it's quite lame, but I just really agree with whoever else said that Matt Bellamy seems to have a MASSIVE page in comparison to Chris and Dom. Feedback would be nice. We have improvements to make here on MuseWiki.

Thanks MuseWiki

"Spoiler" policy

Just something I have in mind for the inevitable 5th album leak in a few months time, I'm adding here while I remember it. Should we prevent the addition of new lyrics and information obtained from the leak, and only allow that from interviews and news etc? Whilst I will most likely listen to the leak myself, some users of Musewiki will abstain from the leak until the official release of the album, and it wouldn't be fair for those who'd rather have the full "new album experience" ۞ 00:17, 27 February 2009 (GMT)

Maybe the lyrics could be added but with a spoiler warning. Salty 04:51, 27 February 2009 (GMT)

Hm, perhaps another red-box template with something to the effect of "SPOILER WARNING: Information from leaked album not otherwise available is presented below." --Tene 19:39, 27 February 2009 (GMT)

music

Do you think we should add music to the front page like they do on the official page?

We don't hold the copyrights or have permission. And there's the issue of bandwidth. This site violates copyright law anyway, but thankfully no one seems to care that we host things like lyrics and low quality clips of songs so it doesn't matter. Plus, why? People could just go to the official site... ۞ 20:13, 24 April 2009 (BST)

Media archive

There is now no quick way to access the archive...was it removed for a particular reason or can the link be returned to the sidebar of main page? ۞ 21:50, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Just a precautionary measure against copyright trolls.... I think it a good indication that the stated purpose of the section is accurate. I would like to see opposing points/analyses though. --Tene 21:58, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Fair enough - I guess the site may get more attention as the year progresses due to the new album and such so better safe than sorry. I was thinking more for the benefit of fans who might not know it's there to read articles about the band, but then again any good info is incorporated into other Musewiki articles anyway so that's not such a problem as long as there citations. ۞ 23:00, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Indeed, the idea being that all the information which is in the archive is also in our articles... although, naturally, that will take quite some effort and time ;). --Tene 23:27, 14 June 2009 (BST)

General image linking question

I'm making a template which involves an image linking to an external site - except it doesn't seem to work. I though this was simply [[Image:image.jpg|link=http://www.google.com/]] ... but this does not work. Am I being stupid or what?

For example, let's say I want a small Muse logo to link to the official site - [[File:Muse logo.png|50px|link=http://www.muse.mu/]] I would have thought, but this just gives and treats the link a alt text. =/ Niall 15:03, 27 June 2009 (BST)

Nah, that's MediaWiki 1.14 stuff, I just haven't got round to installing that bad boy yet haha, might do it now...--crazybobbles 16:57, 27 June 2009 (BST) ... right backing up the wiki, get ready for some 1.14 action!

Booyaa, upgraded to 1.15! (Very out of date I am) The link works now :) --crazybobbles 19:32, 27 June 2009 (BST)

Muse sidebar/front page

IMO videography on the front page sould be replaced by discography, a condierably larger and more widley used part of Musewiki, as videography is already on the sidebar. Why videograpy but not discography? Some other parts on the front page such as Quotes and Commericla Use are rarely edited and viewed and edited sections of the site, and could be made accessible via other pages. My idea:

Welcome to MuseWiki Now with 10% more subtitles. 4,986 articles about Muse, written by 16,652 pornogenic musers (99.5% sign up for the lulz)

Muse Biography Tour Dates

Discography Videography Song anthology

Gear Tabs Influences

Thoughts? Niall 15:25, 11 July 2009 (BST)

Yeah makes sense, no idea why disco isn't there, probably back then i thought the sidebar would help, DO IT :P --crazybobbles 17:35, 11 July 2009 (BST)

Attracting new users

So, a while back I discussed with Sam ways we could get more information on to MuseWiki, as it is missing a fair bit of info still it seems. There are already quite a few people complaining because a gig they went to isn't on the official site, the archive of which was composed both from an official record and those on MuseWiki, but appearntly isn't complete. So what I'm going to do is make a few stickied threads on the official message board to get people to come over to here and contribute the missing info. It does mean we'll have some more articles that don't go with current conventions I expect, let's put it like that, but those can fixed and it means we'll have extra information that would otherwise be missing. And hopefully attract some of the older pre-Showbiz fans to help with those gigs.

In addition I'll be asking people to contribute to the Discography more if they have information on and images of rare Muse stuff. I'll be a help contact for people who don't know what to do or want to help but don't want to edit the wiki via the board and niall@muse.mu so there shouldn't be a lot of confused people around, but just a heads up incase any trolls turn up or something. Thoughts/objections/mutinies? Cheers, Niall 11:39, 14 July 2009 (BST)

Sounds good to me, there has been an admin [at] musewiki [dawt] org email which a few people have used and occasionally people find it comical shoving stuff in my user page to tell me about stuff, but yeah... things haven't been too proactive with the fans :p stickies would be good and perhaps museboard should now have a link to musewiki at the bottom? this week's quite a busy week for me so i won't be able to give any proper thoughts on it yet mind but should be able to help out more on the weekends (should be anyway). --crazybobbles 11:46, 14 July 2009 (BST)

Kev says he is reluctant to have it on the forums unfortunately =[ I will still try and get more people over hear to contribute. For now I've been given that email address so that people can get me to do it for them, but that's not the whole point in a wiki. Niall 15:50, 14 July 2009 (BST)

Would have thought there'd be some sort of three way going on with the sites now but I guess not, back then the issue with musewiki link at the bottom was that I worked as a mod and obviously that'd be a bit biased in having my site there even though it helps a lot of folks at the main muse area finding information out. The other issue was the lack of officialness with muse.mu but i thought we are considered as official now. so yeah, would be interested to see the reasons why but it's no biggie since muse.mu is scattered with musewiki links to entice users. Give it some time i guess, though most users would assume that the information they know is already filled so it's hard to motivate people to actively look for places to fill up. --crazybobbles 16:12, 14 July 2009 (BST)

Formatting on this page

What's up with it? Muse.mu content messing with it? Niall 19:42, 18 January 2010 (GMT)

Still messed up in Chrome. The news and twitter feeds have been shifted below the band pictures. Niall 14:45, 15 February 2010 (GMT)

Yes, it is messed up in Chrome, exactly as you described... does anyone know how to fix this?? EmilyWine 18:17, 25 June 2010 (BST)

I'm gonna have to sort this out. Those thumbnails are the problem. Niall 11:47, 7 October 2010 (BST)

Pointless users

Can we ban users who come on Musewiki and then only make pages about themselves? This isn't a social networking site. Niall 14:44, 15 February 2010 (GMT)

I imagine that leaving them be would be advantageous PR-wise, while I doubt that banning any would reduce the rate at which 'social networking' types sign up. --Tene 14:36, 16 February 2010 (GMT)

What should we do, if users put idiotic stuff on the pages?I´ve undone the edits...but am not sure what I can do about it otherwise?BlackPainted 14:17, 3 February 2011 (GMT)

TOC issues.

Our TOC magic words aren't working. Niall 15:15, 26 March 2010 (GMT)

Matt Hairstyles

We should have a page like this about Matt (and perhaps Chris and Dom as well) http://weezerpedia.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Rivers_Cuomo%27s_appearance Swedol 18:02, 16 November 2010 (GMT)

Twitter feeds

So Dom has taken over @muse, should we just link all three of them with only a few posts showing now on the main page? Niall 11:42, 11 April 2011 (BST)

Yeah, makes sense, probably need to make a list feed to merge all 3 rather than linking to all 3 --crazybobbles 12:33, 11 April 2011 (BST)

Maybe it's an idea to put Tom in the twitter feed as well, since he tweets a lot.

New users...

So, er, rather worrying...we seem to be getting joined by a lot of spambots. I guess it's harmless as long as they don't start posting. Niall 14:45, 14 June 2011 (BST)

New highest note in full voice?

If I'm not mistaken, I think at 2:25 in Survival he actually hits a B4 which is higher than the previous highest notes in Unnatural Selection and Feeling Good...

(Survival) There I changed it, I'm almost sure it's a Bb4 at 2:25 and then a few short A4s (3:49/3:51) please check it out and disscuss it here before changing it again.

Do you want to make a page about this article?

http://selectmagazinescans.monkeon.co.uk/showpage.php?file=wp-content/uploads/2012/06/muse.jpg --Muselover (talk) 22:54, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

Tom Kirk in "Tweets from @musewiki/muse" list

Hi, somebody have probably proposed it before but I think Tom Kirk's tweets and maybe Morgan Nicholls' one should be added in the Tweets from @musewiki/muse list because Tom Kirk often answer to Muser and a big part of his tweets are about Muse. Thanks.

HTTPS for MuseWiki

Someone who has the power should really give MuseWiki HTTPS. I don't particularly enjoy seeing Chrome tell me "DUDE THIS SITE ISN'T SAFE RUN" every time I go on here. There's no real downside to implementing it AFAIK. - Commenter of Comments (talk)

Essentially you need to purchase a certificate ($$$) and an additional IP ($$$) to get HTTPS which I'd need to request --crazybobbles (talk) 10:27, 4 October 2018 (BST)

This just shows how out of touch and unfit you are for being a server owner of Musewiki. Certificates have been a free thing for quite a while now. https://letsencrypt.org/ Hell, you don't even need certificates, you can go ghetto route and use Cloudflare free plan, which essentially routes traffic through them and gives you free HTTPS (HTTP to HTTPS). You change DNS stuff for the domain, and then it's literally *ONE* button to enable HTTPS on Cloudflare. --Ncla (talk) 12:03, 4 October 2018 (BST)

Background image

@crazybobbles: It's 2018 and Simulation Theory is gonna release soon. T2L artwork at this point is a parody of how out-dated the site is. Please change it to something that is more up-to-date or generic. --Ncla (talk) 18:45, 16 October 2018 (BST)

Merch section

I've been kicking around this idea for a while, but it would be pretty cool to have a section dedicated to band merchandise. You could link directly to the muse.mu shop if those products are still for sale, and if not have an archive here of past merch. This could include the new t-shirts that seem to be coming out for specific gigs, like the one at the Wiltern Theatre. If you think it's a good idea, let me know, it would be nice to be able to do it between more people. Cheers! --HaritzErased (talk) 17:58, 4 October 2022 (BST)